to be fair, the berkeley people made total fools of themselves
apparently the actual anarchists weren’t even students
that seems like a copout
eg the ones who threw the shit
does it lol? I feel like that’s a pretty damn important detail
whenever things go wrong, its someone elses fault
especially if retaliation is going to be cutting funds from america’s best public university
…except sometimes other people actually do it?
isnt that state funded though?
I don’t think the federal government can do anything about that
like what’s the argument there, that the students should be blamed for the actions of non-students anyway?
apparently Berkeley receives federal funds as well
that there’s no evidence it was non-students
i guess that makes sense, that’s why the dear colleague letter has impact
lemme read up a bit
the anarchist spin is new
I mean, I hear this sort of things about like, BLM protests too when they go bad
I mean, I feel like it’s reasonable to assume that the majority of protestors are peaceful right
like apparently there was an independent peaceful student protest that got interrupted by these people arriving from off-campus
seems like you’re right
dunno. My gut instinct is to be skeptical whenever someone says like, ‘it wasn’t OUR group that was doing it, WE were peaceful’ just cause its the obvious no true scotsman cop out.
It also seems like these anarchists have done this before, which makes me wonder how 150 people can just appear on a campus and not have anyone stop them from entering (i mean, berkeley does have campus security). In the future I’d be more satisfied if the peaceful protesters left so police could go and arrest the idiots responding with force, instead of being human shields.
All of THAT being said, I did watch the livestream of the riot and there were definitely students participating
I feel like if 150 violent protestors arrived on Columbia’s campus there wouldn’t be much campus security could do to stop them lol
idk if ~no~ students participated
Either way, cutting funding would be horrible
The UC system is already hemorrhaging money
also I love that breitbart is inching ever closer to becoming state media
and by love I mean am disgusted by of course
its not government funded?
breitbart, that is
unless you mean, ‘not critical of the government’
I mean, Steve Bannon is on the government payroll lol
I meant like personally invested and implicated in the regime
like, I really doubt Cheeto Benito would be threatening to cut Berkeley funding if this happened to someone else
here around like 35 minutes in you can see the protesters
also like, “no true Scotsman” doesn’t reeeally apply here lol
assuming that only the people in black were the ones who were not students
in class lol
You realize that government and news being closely tied is like…really common? and a serious problem, one that gamergate has been complaining about for a while? there are tons of anchors and writers and journalists who have either had government roles or are related to politicians or are otherwise involved in politics.
have I ever supported it before lol
you’ve never noticed it before
I feel like we’ve complained about corrupt media bla bla bla plenty of times before
my point was more how gross it is that of all the media organizations to have such a hand in the government it has to be ~breitbart~
like that’s some fascism gone mainstream post-apocalyptic bullshit right there
fall of Rome tier moral degradation
I mean, I don’t really like breitbart either but I don’t see why this is uniquely bad compared to any other news organization being corrupt with government ties
cuz they’re fascists
or, at the very least, openly alt-right and xenophobic and racist and etc
which, like, is just nazism by a better name
I just love the hypocrisy of the immigrant country tearing itself apart over whether it likes immigrants
really they should just deport all the white people back to Europe
rewatching the video again and seriously its not like these students are really torn up about the fact that supposed strangers are becoming violent. Seem to be pretty hype about it.
they completely ruined American values
eh, I’d probably be fairly hype in the moment ngl
I recognize the objective necessity of non-violence but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a visceral hatred of Milo and everything he stands for
Like, I think white nationalism is bullshit obviously. I just find it ironic that the politics you’re railing against are literally the same bullshit identity politics applied to a different race
I feel like that’s a horrible mischaracterization but ok
and like, I’ve never suggested a Liberia-like project ever lol
read this statement: <ethnic category> needs to look out for its own people
so anti-immigration is something that no version of leftist identity politics supports
it’s like – you ignore intersectionalism whenever convenient, but then pretend like it’s the problem when it actually ~~solves~~ the problems of the left
how does it solve?
I don’t think the statement ever reads <solely look out for its own people>
Professor [REDACTED] just showed us the tautology club xkcd
If the goal is political power for your ethnic category, and you’re currently a minority, of course you’re going to be more open armed to even smaller minorities than you. But I can think of a number of times where BLM protesters shut down protesters of other minorities for not being super gungho about only black rights
people who claim* to be BLM protesters
anyway, you should really watch that video
like there is no world in which that crowd does not have some culpability, even if the supposed violent instigators were other people
I also think its worth mentioning one other thing on berkeley, and like the left in general – something that thank god the right hasn’t picked up on yet. The redefining of words as violence is horrendous and needs to stop.
offensive words* as violence
that’s just like, your opinion man
i mean, do YOU want to be the one that makes it ok to start reacting to words with violence? Because thats how you get political repression and actual fascism
also: [REDACTED]s post in the [REDACTED] group is a sad reminder that the US no longer really belongs to the set of “Western liberal democracies”
actual totalitarianism maybe, I feel like fascism has a certain value structure that the left doesn’t
also I feel like this doomsday rhetoric is doing more damage than like…richard spencer. We elected an unpopular president, it happens. We’re going to live through, what, another 16 presidential terms or so? It’s going to happen again.
eh, I feel like doomsday rhetoric keeps people on their guard
no it doesn’t, it devalues words and makes it so that when something is *actually* the end of the world, no one gives a shit.
I also feel like you’re underestimating the seriousness of having elected a short-tempered bullying man child to the most powerful office on earth
yeah the point is I feel like you would perennially start shifting the goalposts
I mean, clearly there is an entire government system and populace working to stop him. Like the ACLU lawsuit went through in…less than a day?
like 20 hours?
Like, after the #muslimban are you really going to say that the stakes aren’t higher than normal?
and the ACLU lawsuit didn’t stop him!
And the reason the response was so effective was because people were naturally outraged
The reaction to that ban was bipartisan, swift, and effective.
like, I don’t understand your logic here
it definitely wasn’t bipartisan unless you count John McCain as the entire Republican Party lol
like you don’t want people to ever be outraged yet you rely on the idea that they will be when it matters but when they are you say they shouldn’t have been?
When it did matter, they did
also, ~~it wasn’t effective~~
be outraged, that is
The travel ban is still in place
All they did is stop him from deporting the people who were already in airports
like trump won this one lol
And people pretending like the ACLU suit overturned the ban are part of the problem
Because now everybody is fucking complacent
Like, people from those seven countries can’t enter the US now
if by ‘won’ you mean, now has the entire country working against him, sure. He already had to overturn the greencard portion of the ban, and the court cases haven’t even started
And also the Christian priority is law now
so then yes, the outrage needs to continue to sustain public interest in actually overturning it
Because the work isn’t done yet
Like, I’m not saying don’t be outraged over Trump’s actions, just stop with the end of western values stuff. Its not true.
but like – low key is
That’s why this is outrageous
The fact that we can register outrage and do something about what is currently happening means that we are obviously still a country of WLD values
like you’re saying people should be outraged but never just point out the plain truth of why this action was bad
let’s see how that goes then lol
and whether that ability to dissent still registers with the government
There is no country in the world that would allow immigrants in from the airports if this wasn’t a WLD
nor be forced to turn over the greencard part of the order
considering a house and senate that will never convict (or even fail to appoint a nominee)
its been a week
it wasn’t a great week
I think you have to be blind to say that the dissent of the populace hasn’t registered with the government
has it registered with trump? probly not, but he’s fucking lunatic
let’s see if it results in actual change then
a fucking* lunatic
anyway, it wasn’t the end of the country when we literally had a civil war over slavery, I don’t think this is going to be the end of our western liberal democratic tradition. I think a bigger danger to *THAT* is the blatant pandering to identity groups that we see from both sides of the aisle these days >.>
well, more than that, is the blatant redefinition of what justifies political violence
like part of what I don’t like about the end of WLD rhetoric is that it emboldens anarchists like those that supposedly attacked Berkeley.
Eh, I guess WLDs have always generally been terrible at actually following the standards they are supposed to
I also think the “WLD” is a 20th century concept
well, alright, we survived nixon
according to a friend of mine at Berkeley who was at the protests, there were many students who were actually protesting violently. Trying to get numbers.
Where are those crowd counting experts when you need them >.>
according to said friend, also said that many students were dressed as the anarchists or had ties to the anarchists
at around 1:31:00 of the vid I sent, the protesters or anarchists or whoever you want to call them start beating other people with flag poles
looks like they knock some girl unconscious
around 1:45:00 they start a dance party xD
which is like in full swing at 2:10:00 – they’re literally singing to song lyrics xD
at 2:24:00 people start playing instruments (???)
looks like they move away from where the event was actually taking place to the college town at some point, probly around 1:30 in
and then 2:55:00 set up some garbage fires
at 3:04:00 they block a car of some random guy
At 3:10:00, destroying a random bank of america
more dancing at 3:15:00, to the tune of ole ole
these are like
clearly students man
around 3:30:00 they march to the center of the city
and at 3:31:00, destroy and loot a random store
some more atm destruction at 3:41:00
and again at 3:51:00
and a starbucks at 3:56
even if every violent action taken was entirely by anarchists, an entire crowd of berkeley students followed them and cheered them on throughout. There is no world in which I buy that the students do not take some responsibility.
protesters threaten the cameraman at 4:00:00
see if only they started dancing without the looting
but yeah, i believe that students were involved
idk if that means ~all~ the students were involved or w/e
i mean of course not ALL of them were
but this is like, definitionally no true scotsman right?
i mean, assuming somebody is making the argument
well, we can’t just write it off as ‘anarchists just bein gosh darned anarchists’ is what i mean
one of the guys on a CNN interview says that the rioters at berkeley might have been affiliated with breitbart news
can we just go ahead and say that CNN is no longer unbiased moderate?
what does “one of the guys” mean lol
If it’s one of those panel shows where they get a bunch of talking heads from different opinion groups to speak then ofc not
I guess that’s fair
though the anchor seemed very accepting of the premise
I mean yeah, that’s just what they do
Remember when CNN would have debates over whether global warming was real
did they? XD
Im pretty sure lol
the media has always sucked
And I’ve never been a fan of CNN, for reference – my dad keeps getting annoyed because whenever he watches it I just bash it lol
what the fuck is happening
Exactly a week
the news is still coming out, but nonetheless this pokes a decent sized hole in the ‘end of wld’ rhetoric
i appreciate that wld can also be short for world
hashtag cultural imperialism
there is the financial deregulation tho
I’m not saying that what trump is doing is correct or even sane. I’m just pointing out that when he did something blatantly unconstitutional, the wheels spun as they should and within a week it was struck down.
lego batman movie is out
but yeah, the last week has given me a little more faith in the judiciary
hooray for appointed positions