On the Nintendo Switch

Valentine

I feel like Nintendo is low key shitting the bed with all this new switch news

Paid online with shitty features, apparently pretty overpriced in a lot of regions, no backwards compatibility

Peter

The games lineup looks good and frankly that’s all that matters

Valentine

Not really

Peter

Yes really. The rest of the stuff is quality of life, but the games are what matter

Also wasn’t the only console you’ve owned the Wii? XD

Valentine

I had a ps2 and a PS3 lol

Peter

Both of which I’m sure you enjoyed because of the games library

Valentine

And idk if “the ability to play games online” should really be “quality of life” rn

Peter

Maybe. Nintendo has never really been about online gaming, I think Splatoon is the only game that needs it

I’m not particularly concerned, if I want to game online I’d do PC gaming

Valentine

Sure, which is a large part of why buying a Nintendo console has been a iffy decision for most gamers for the last few years

Peter

You mean the Wii u?

Valentine

And making you have to pay for their shitty online services to me seems like Nintendo is really out of touch with their consumer base

Peter

Cause that’s the only console, and I think you’d have a tough time making the argument that the problem with the Wii u was it’s internet

Valentine

I don’t like the attitude that’s like “oh gaming companies can screw consumers but we love them anyway”

Peter

Especially cause it has free internet XD

Valentine

The fact that the Wii U had shitty online services was definitely part of the reasons

Peter

There were no games that used the online service except for sm4sh and Splatoon, both which worked fine

I don’t think anyone’s decision calculus for not buying the Wii u included “ugh but internet” instead of “the games line up isn’t that worth”

Valentine

Considering that so few Nintendo games even use online, does it seem reasonable for them to charge a subscription fee to access online play from the device at all? Which is what they’re doing

The argument that “few Nintendo games use online” makes it even worse

Because like, if the only switch game that you buy is Smash Bros you’ve basically wound up doubling the cost of the game

Cuz not only do you have to pay 60 dollars for the game, you have to pay 60 more to be able to play it online for a year

Or rather only switch game that you buy that can be played online

Peter

Do Sony and MS not charge?

Valentine

They do, and that’s also shitty

Peter

I think this probly makes it tough for third party devs

O

Valentine

But they offer a bunch of free games

Peter

Meaning?

Valentine

And also have many many more games and services that actually use online

Literally that

They have free games every month

Peter

O OK

Valentine

That you can play and download for that month

Peter

But you have to buy the game right?

Or is it like steam demos?

Valentine

Nintendo is doing that….but with just one NES or SNES game per month that is deleted at the end of the month

I guess it’s like a steam demo that lasts a month

The ps and Xbox selections are always relatively recent games, and there’s usually a pretty good spread

I remember when I had a PS3 I considered getting ps+ (their online service which was only optional at the time) just cuz the game selection was really generous

It’s like they’re trying to ape their competitors but offering a vastly and visibly inferior service (which you can’t really opt out of without losing features for games that need it)

Peter

Obviously it would be better for Nintendo to not charge for their internet but I really don’t think anyone who’s buying a switch is doing it for the Internet services anyway

And I think this is true for PS and MS too

The difference is that PS and MS have a lot of third party overlap

Valentine

I think you underestimate how essential online gameplay is for most popular games now

Peter

So there’s a drive to make sure their online services are good, whereas Nintendo just doesn’t have third party support and hasn’t since the gc

Also, most popular online games are still PC. Frankly I think the drive for all console games to go online kinda missed the unique benefits that consoles provide, which is couch gaming

Valentine

The most popular console games are shit like FIFA and COD

~escorts~ are PC, but console gaming is still largely driven by online tentpole multiplayer games

Peter

Esports

Valentine

I’ll agree that that’s not necessarily making best use of the medium

Peter

Maybe, but I don’t think it should have been

Yea

Valentine

No also escorts

Peter

XD

Valentine

You can’t book a hooker from a PlayStation

Peter

Tru

I think console gaming really missed out by not focusing on coop campaign

Valentine

If Nintendo is gonna charge for online services it better make them good is what I’m saying

Peter

I think like every game should have that, but only Halo does

Valentine

And there’s a mild backlash happening against the switch now on Reddit and such

I’ll agree with that tbh

Portal 2 coop was one of the most fun gaming experiences I had in the PS3 era

Peter

Was that split screen?

Valentine

Yep

Played it with a friend irl

Peter

I mean this is part of the reason why I like Nintendo, is because their multiplayer games are all still split screen

Except Splatoon I guess

Valentine

I mean I still think Nintendo first party games are good lol

I just think they have an at this point nigh intractable problem of being out of touch with the rest of the industry/what their main base wants out of their consoles

The games will always be there, which is fine, but it’s been a long time since buying a Nintendo console has seemed like a straightforwardly “good” decision compared to their competitors for people who can’t just afford to get both

(Or don’t just want to play Nintendo games lol)

Peter

Again you’re literally just talking about the Wii u

When you say long time you mean the last few years with the Wii u

Valentine

The Wii was a shit console except for the brief novelty of motion control, which is why my parents got it for me lol

The GameCube had a couple standout games but an incredibly shallow library

The last truly great Nintendo console was the N64

handhelds have always been solid/the only ones worth considering tho

Peter

You’re wrong on both counts. The Wii was not built for hard core gamers, it was built for families and it wildly succeeded at that task with the most console sales ever besides the ps2

Valentine

the ps2 was great honestly

Peter

And the GameCube had like 3k games made for it because it had crazy third party support

Valentine

Consoles jumped the shark with the ps2

“crazy third party support”

The GameCube

That’s definitely not the narrative the wider gaming public believes

I might be wrong, maybe there were a bunch of third party games

But afaik that era was basically all about the ps2 (which actually had “crazy third party support”) fucking smashing the GameCube into the ground

Peter

Shallow library? Smash, sunshine, Luigi’s Mansion, double dash, Mario tennis, Mario strikers, Metroid prime trilogy, Star Fox adventures, DK jungle beat, and that’s just what I could think of off hand not counting third party 

Valentine

  1. All of that is first party, which is the whole point

Peter

According to wiki, GC had 661 games released for it

Valentine

And how many of these were any good lol

Peter

Ps2 had 2.5k XD

Valentine

There ya go

THAT is “crazy third party support”

Even the Xbox had 1045

Peter

The PS2 was the best console, I’m not arguing that. But saying the GameCube was a bad buy is just wrong

Valentine

My point is essentially that Nintendo has been the “it’s ~alright~ but can’t really justify if you can only get one” for three and possibly soon four console generations

Peter

I really don’t think that’s true at all

Valentine

Tbh you’re something of an outlier in that the only console games you want to play are Nintendo first party

Peter

I think that’s true for the Wii U. For the Wii, it wasn’t aimed at hardcore gamers so it’s a different deciding calculus anyway

Valentine

I low key wish Nintendo would just become a game developer rather than be in consoles

Unless the switch winds up being amazing I guess

Peter

Disagree. Nintendo is the only one actually innovating in consoles. PS and MS are content to have their consoles become desktops with controllers

Like I think Nintendo is the only one that’s treating consoles as not-computers. Thus the focus on couch gaming and trying to do new things with the medium

Which is also why third parties don’t like Nintendo, because third parties want to make a computer game and then have an easy port to console

Which is easy if the console is just a computer

Valentine

You have a point, though I think it would be easier to agree if their innovations stuck around/were good

But yeah consoles as just another computer in your house but this one is shittier than a regular one is not great lol

Peter

They’re working on it. Not everything is a hit.

People laughed at the DS too when it came out though, and that has way more sales than any other gaming thing out there

Valentine

I think ps2 sales are still the highest of any gaming thing ever

Peter

No iirc DS has more units sold

Valentine

Just because it had such amazing market share in developing countries

Lemme check that

Peter

Could be wrong

Valentine

Yep, ps2 barely ahead

Peter

With a 4 year head start

Wow the DS release was 13 years ago

Damn 

Valentine

The DS is also cheating because they released like four iterations all grouped under the same thing lol

So loads of people wound up buying two or three

Like I had two – the original and then one of the updated ones a few years later

But both would count as “Nintendo DS” sales

Peter

Are you sure?

Because I think those count as individual consoles 

Valentine

Yep, checking now

The other consoles aren’t listed there

Peter

They may not have sold in the millions

Valentine

No the whole article refers to it as the DS “product line”

That’s definitely what the stat is referring to

Also like, the three later iterations collectively probably near as much as the original right lol

I don’t think there would be anything near such a disparity

*collectively sold

Peter

Yea you’re probly right

*shrug* PS2 was really good

In any case, I think Nintendo is doing the right thing by experimenting with controllers and hardware.

The 3ds was cool. The Wii, though not super good at what it did, basically kicked off the rush for VR, and improved tech is coming back in things like ARMS. The Wii U controller wasn’t super great either, but it was a foray into asymmetric gameplay and redefining how people think about their controllers.

They have a lot of money and can afford to take losses and try things. I don’t like that the Internet isn’t free, but tbh I also don’t think it matters because Nintendo never made internet gameplay a priority.

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